What age should you start training your gundog puppy?

What age should you start gundog training?I received an interesting question today over on the Labrador Site.

A commenter had just read Keith Erlandson’s book ‘Gundog Training’  published in 1976.

He notes that Keith includes a warning to never begin gundog training before six months of age,  and suggests eight months as the right time to begin.

This gundog owner was quite naturally worried that he may have started his own puppy off too young and done some harm in the process

Starting at eight months

Keith Erlandson was of course a brilliant gundog trainer and a good writer.  I and many others learned a great deal from his books.

I stuck to the practice of leaving my puppies untouched until around eight months of age right up until around ten years ago,  when I started experimenting with some aversive free training techniques.

This article is about why I changed the age at which I start training puppies,  and why I believe it is ok for you to start training your young puppy too if you want to. With certain provisos.

Spaniels and hunting drive

Keith Erlandson was a distinguished and successful spaniel trainer.  Like most successful gundog trainers he trained many breeds of dog,  but spaniels were his thing.  Keith’s forte was to produce spaniels that would be successful in competition.   A competitive spaniel is not just judged on his steadiness and retrieving ability.  He is also judged on his hunting speed and style.

Hunting game in order to flush rather than to retrieve is of course the spaniel’s primary role,  and for many years it was believed that early discipline would inhibit a spaniel’s will to hunt.

However, it is becoming increasingly clear that this is not such a great risk as was once thought.

You can read more about this issue in this article:  Hunting versus heelwork for spaniels. The essence of the article is that provided the young puppy is also given plenty of opportunity to explore and hunt in different types of terrain,  he is most unlikely to abandon hunting just because you teach him to walk to heel at five months old.

Retrieving drive and desire

It is my belief that the desire to retrieve is more precarious than the desire to hunt.

Working strain gundogs have been bred for many generations with retrieving desire in mind and most working retrievers and spaniels come pre-packaged with some desire to chase and pick up a thrown or moving object.

But,  this desire varies greatly in strength from one dog to another and is often vulnerable.

I think of retrieving desire as resembling a little flame.  Nurtured with tiny twigs and kindling it soon grows into a full grown blaze,  but throw a log on this little flame before it is a proper fire,  and the flame will be extinguished.

The concern of professional gundog trainers both in Keith’s time and today,  is that too much repetitive retrieving practice with young puppies,  especially too much steadiness, will snuff out the desire to retrieve.

And this is still a valid concern.

However,  it needn’t stop you training your puppy at a young age,  provided that you arm yourself with the right information.

There are articles on this website about the importance of building retrieving desire carefully and not instilling steadiness too young.  You can find out more on this page:  Building and maintaining retrieving desire in your gundog

Changing methods in gundog training

There is no doubt that gundog training methods have changed a lot since the 1970s.   When I first began spaniel training thirty-five years ago,  slapping, scruff-shaking and worse,  were common practice.

The training process was a tough one for the young dog.  Advice to hold off on this process until the puppy was mature, was sound.  Using a lot of physical punishment and intimidation  on a young puppy was quite rightly considered inappropriate.

And so puppies were not started on their training until they were mentally tough enough to be able to cope with the ‘corrections’ that were inherent in the process.

Nowadays things are different.  Especially with retrievers.  It is quite possible to train a retriever to a very high standard indeed with an absolute minimum of aversives.

Many trainers are benefitting from an increasingly widespread understanding of how dogs learn,  and how to train using predominantly rewards rather than corrections.   Spaniel work can be more challenging in this respect,  but even here, many trainers have changed their methods somewhat over the years.

Taking it slowly

In some cases these modern techniques take longer to get results.    In 1970 a trainer might start his spaniel at eight months and be shooting over him within six months.    This would be difficult to achieve without using much in the way of corrections.

A professional gundog trainer even today,  is often under pressure to produce results quickly.  But many ordinary gundog owners are happy to take a bit longer over their training and to use less punishment.  And one of the key advantages of these more gentle techniques is that there is no real minimum age limit when training can or should begin, provided that care is taken to maintain a happy attitude in the puppy and to avoid crushing his drive to retrieve.

Just because you can

Of course just because you can,  does not necessarily mean you ‘should’.  A three month old puppy can be taught to sit, lie down, and many other ‘tricks’ in a basic way.

But he is still a puppy and easily distracted.  Just because it is possible to do so, does not necessarily mean you should feel under any obligation to begin training at this early stage.

Puppies’ attention span

And bear in mind that the earlier you start,  the more slowly you must progress.  A three month old puppy may be able to sit in your kitchen for ten seconds,  but it will be a long time before she can sit quietly in a field whilst other dogs race around fetching dummies.

A puppy’s attention span is very short and if you push on too fast (as will be the temptation  if you start very young) you will set your puppy up to fail.  Which would be a great shame.

If you follow my blog about my new labrador puppy Rachael, who is three months old this week,  you will see that I have taught her very little,  except to love the sound of the recall whistle and to associate it with the act of running towards me.  I have done a little bit of retrieving with her too, and made progress with housetraining.  But that is it.

I could have done a lot more,  but I am in no hurry.

So whilst I no longer put off training a dog until it is eight months old,  neither do I carry out much formal training before four or five months of age.

Your situation is unique

What you decide to do will depend on your personal circumstances.  I am guessing that Keith Erlandson did not have to walk the kids to school with a six month old spaniel in tow.   If your dog lives in the home with you, rather than in a kennel,  you are going to have to do a certain amount of training in order for your dog to fit into the rhythm of family life.

If your dogs are kennelled like my spaniels are,  then you don’t have to worry so much about making a start in training because your dogs will not be influenced by other members of the family,  or by having to lead walk outside of training sessions.

If you want to ‘trial’ your dogs then you need to take care to maintain hunting drive and speed.  If you want to shoot over your dogs or pick up with them,  then you will need to cherish and nurture that retrieving desire.   Go easy on the steadiness and don’t introduce it until your puppy is retrieving with panache!

Teaching your puppy to sit,  and even to walk to heel at four or five months old,  using modern and positive methods is not likely to be in conflict with those aims.   Just remember to keep it fun, upbeat, and to enjoy yourselves.

How about you

Do you start training your pups at an early age or are you a bit more traditional in approach?  Share your views in the comments box below.

by Pippa on July 15, 2012

{ 15 comments… read them below or add one }

Mike Smith July 15, 2012 at 3:33 pm

Good article, I start training as soon as I take procession of the pup but with the litters we breed ourselves I start the training at two days old, that’s on the second day after being born using the Bio Sensor (superdogging) system.

I start to put recalls into the litter from three and a half weeks of age with good recalls by six weeks, of course at this early age it’s all done in the kitchen before moving out to the garden. The last pup of the litter to go to their new home, the pup that the people can’t take for a week or so after the others have gone knows a good recall to name. We have one now, a nice black boy, Milo, who is going to his new people in four days time.

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Pippa July 15, 2012 at 5:04 pm

That’s nice Mike, did you keep a pup?

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Mike Smith July 16, 2012 at 11:08 am

I wish, but we already have four dogs all living in the kitchen, as you do, In one of the training sessions we where talking about this very subject of how many dogs could be kept in a home environment, someone said they have seven goldies and I said if they were cockers that would be an impossible situation since we only have two human laps for them to sit on.

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Robin Guenier July 15, 2012 at 5:10 pm

I was the commentator who asked the question that prompted this article. I’ve had gun dogs for many years (starting when Erlandson’s book was published) – initially spaniels and, four years ago, a labrador – Ned. I’ve always bought trained dogs about 18 months old and then continued their training through to early shooting days. It worked – and I’ve had some lovely, obedient, reliable and always friendly dogs. Then early this year my dear old spaniel, Sam, died (aged 16) and I decided to have a puppy from a litter Ned had just sired.

So Oscar arrived, aged eight weeks. And, as I’m now retired, I decided to train him myself. Initially he lived in a cage in the kitchen and it was my job to let him out in the morning, feed him and give him a run in the garden. We loved these sessions – he seemed to learn something new every day. Without any pressure, he was quickly house trained and was running around with me, exploring the garden, chasing bumble bees etc. Throughout he was anxious not to lose touch with me (this has continued – if we walk in the local wood, he’s continually checking to see where I am). We had great fun, for example, with him chasing after his toys – and he eventually graduated to tennis balls. I taught him to sit – not difficult as Lab puppies seem to like to sit anyway – both on a spoken “sit” and then when I raised my hand. And it seemed a natural progression to do this before throwing a tennis ball. And sometimes he even stayed sitting until I told him to fetch it! At about the same time, I found I could walk away and he (usually and increasingly often) stay sitting – even when I hid. All this was fun for us both – especially when he could walk alongside me, holding my hand with his sharp little teeth. So, by the age of four months, he was happily doing lots of useful, basic things. Then he graduated to living outside in the kennel and run with his dad. He accepted this change happily (he’d already spent lots of afternoons there) and the three of us – rather to Ned’s surprise (he’s a rather serious dog) – enjoyed it. At about this time, I encouraged them both to sit and wait for their meals – calling one or the other forward first. They got the idea quickly. By then, when Oscar was about eighteen weeks old, I was taking him put for short, rather more serious (not very) training sessions – mainly sitting, staying and walking to heel and learning to respond to the whistle. He progressed well so I tried a very few retrieves, encouraging steadiness, especially by collecting a high proportion myself. He absolutely loved this. So just a few times I took a dummy with me when I was walking both dogs and, building on that “one at a time for dinner” experience, I sent either one or the other for the dummy – if Ned went first, Oscar sat there trembling with excitement. And sometimes gave in and ran in to join his dad. That didn’t (and doesn’t) worry me at this early stage. Add to all that, a couple of trips to a local stream where he’s done some (very enthusiastic) retrieving from water.

That brings us to today when he’s six months old. And he seemed to me to be coming along well and learning a lot with any pressure at all. I was very pleased. Until that is I read that I had started far too soon: could all this be spoiling him for the future? Your article reassures me a little. But not entirely. Should I be slowing down a bit and, focusing on sitting, staying and walking to heel, defer more steadiness and retrieving exercises for a few weeks? The trouble is Oscar loves it all and would, I think, really miss it. What’s the answer? This is probably my last chance to train a dog and I don’t want to get it wrong.

PS: one interesting development. As I said, Ned is a rather serious dog – but now this puppy (albeit in a grown up body – they’re about the same size) has joined him and wants to play, he’s lightened up and they love to race around playing silly biting games.

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Pippa July 15, 2012 at 5:56 pm

Hi Robin

There doesn’t seem much point in unsteadying your dog at six months if you have already steadied him and he is still enthusiastic about retrieving. But, be careful about group retrieving (with the older dog), especially around water, if the pup seems over-excited (you mentioned trembling with excitement) , you could end up with a squeaking problem. Once steadiness training has commenced it is better to insist on steadiness at all times, or the dog will be getting mixed messages.

Marked retrieves are very exciting and you can overdo it. Retrieving in company is also very exciting. Quite a combination. :)
Memory (go-backs) are less likely to wind up the puppy..

Every puppy is different, but at six months I am usually still doing a lot of my pup’s training on their own, and introducing group work for obedience (sit stays etc).

I think you might find it very helpful to have a couple of one-to-ones with a good instructor. Just to put your mind at rest that you are on the right track, to assess whether your pup is actually ready to cope with retrieving alongside another dog. And to generally help you decide what to do next.

Pippa

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Robin Guenier July 15, 2012 at 7:37 pm

Great advice. Thanks.

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Pippa July 15, 2012 at 7:38 pm

You are welcome :)

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K Burge July 16, 2012 at 6:09 pm

Began training at 8 wks just walking on lead at heel with sit commands. Nothing too strict mainly exercise. Began intro to the pond getting feet wet on her own terms and intro to duck wing. 9 wks she swam on her own and retrieved tennis ball sitting on verbal command. 10 weeks is sitting and coming on whistle and voice is swimming .like am adult dog retrieving tennis balls in the pond. Began retrieving tennis balls in short cover. Only two to three retrieves every other day. 10 sits/here per session every other day. She did return a full sized doken launched from a winger at 80 urea. She is also on check cord during 2/3 of the walk. The last part she can run and do what she wants.

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Brenda Cox September 17, 2012 at 9:47 am

I breed labradors for work or play, hopefully they will do both. Several of my pups go as pets or working pets and often to first time owners. As soon as I start to wean the puppies, I use a whistle to come for food. At about 6 weeks I start to put food on the floor and start ‘hi lost’. I always stress to the new owner that if they want the puppy to retrieve to hand, not to let the children (or anyone else) play tug. To sit on the floor, legs apart and roll a tennis ball across the floor, lots of whoopee when the pup picks it up and races back to you, say ‘give’ as you remove the ball from pups mouth. Eventually I just restrain the pup with my hand around his chest until I give him the word ‘back’ as I remove my hand. Then I introduce the word ‘wait’, while I’m restraining him. At this stage the pup is getting every retrieve but soon I shall be standing up and pup will sit beside me and one of my others may get the retrieve. move to the garden, slowly, slowly, building up to a thrown dummy and extending the distance, removing my hand from the dog, just telling it to wait, then ‘back’.
If steadiness isn’t in place, you can use a lead to restrain a dog but there is no substitute for poor retrieve and delivery, that’s why I get that in first.

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Pippa September 17, 2012 at 3:32 pm

Thanks Brenda, its great to see even tiny pups working out how to use their noses isn’t it.

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Katie Scott-Gall November 30, 2012 at 2:25 pm

I am reading Total Recall at the moment & have just found your website which is a gold mine of useful information on Gundog training.
We have a beautifully bred 4month old golden Lab puppy called Scrumpy & a 7yr old black one called Beamish who is the first dog I’ve trained ( with help) He’s a great worker & very biddable. Scrumpy is SO different…very high energy & very independent! He has a nose like a blood hound & an insatiable appetite with a passion for ‘bush tucker’ which makes him quite challenging…the more unsavoury it is the better! This meant we’ve had to keep him on the lead much more than I would like even in the garden! And he does pull quite a lot. He is coming to call & the whistle quite well & I’ve taken your advice to set him up to succeed. Beamish is a good calm influence but I’m a bit worried that Scrumpy is going to become a handful.
He is quite boisterous so I’m wondering what would be the best way to discipline him?
Katie

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Pippa December 1, 2012 at 6:30 pm

Hi Katie, glad you are finding the website useful. If by discipline you mean correction or punishment, then that would depend on your own philosophy or approach to training. It would also depend on the situation and on your dog’s temperament. I don’t think it is something I would want to generalise on. I may be able to comment on specific examples of situations where you are having problems.

Pippa

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Sophie Williams December 27, 2012 at 3:41 pm

Hi Pippa,

I got my first puppy 3 weeks ago, she’s a cocker spaniel and I am about to start some basic training with her, she’s 11 weeks old. All I was going to start was walking to heel, sit, stay and recall over the next few months (as well of course as house training, she seems to understand that she should go outside and gets it right most times, but she can be quite forgetful and goes sly on the floor). Is it too soon to start her training on too much? I don’t want to get it wrong. Also, she cries a lot when I leave her alone in a room, which I have been told will stop in time, I think I just need a bit of reassurance that what I’m doing is OK.

Thanks

Sophie

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Pippa December 28, 2012 at 9:51 pm

Hi Sophie, 11 weeks is still very young. At this age your priority is building the puppy’s confidence and focus on you. There are articles in this section that you might find helpful. To get you started with basic skills over the next few months, you might also find it helpful to get a copy of The Right Start
And this article on crying puppies might also help. For more reassurance drop into the labrador forum and have a chat to some other gundog owners.
Pippa

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Sophie Williams January 3, 2013 at 1:34 pm

Thanks very much for your advice Pippa, its made me feel a bit more confident about her training now. I’ve printed off all the articles and have ordered the book, fingers crossed!

Best Wishes

Sophie

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